Talk:Sylvania Census Center
This is really good - thanks Marcus. Just Kings left to go now. :D --Semyon 18:32, June 9, 2012 (UTC) Thnx i'm planing to start doing bi-yearly censuses. 19:07, June 9, 2012 (UTC) My thoughts on the religious and ethnic consensus Based on patterns on this wiki, I'd say that the Christian and Buddhist populations should be significantly larger. Roman Catholicism has always been a very major religion, and I don't feel that it is very accurate to say that roughly five in every ten people are atheist while only three in that same ten would be of some Christian denomination. Also, Buddhism doesn't seem very prominent, but there is evidence on the wiki that it is practiced often. That combined with the fact that Buddhists do not worship a supreme deity, but only honor the Buddha as their late spiritual leader goes to show that Buddhism is the kind of positive ideology that liberals strive for. I think that Buddhism should rank above Hinduism on this list, at least. Furthermore, I understand that Lovia is to serve as an example of a well-integrated society, however, it doesn't seem feasible that such a large portion of the population practice Islam, considering how unlikely it is that so many people of Muslim ethnicity would relocate to a small, relatively isolated, minor nation. There has shown to be a wide Asian population, however, so that is another reason that I am genuinely surprised to see that Buddhism appears as the least most practiced religion. — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat • ) 03:12, June 10, 2012 (UTC) :Asians can Muslim too, Pikapi. Indonesia, for example, is the largest Islamic country in the world with a population of 250 million souls. You also have Asian Christians (in Vietnam, for example, you have quite a few). Many of the Christians in Asian countries have historically not been treated well and many of the Asian people that migrated to the West were Christians, or belonged to an otherwise mistreated or misunderstood minority. It is very plausible that many of the Asians who came to Lovia were not, in fact, Buddhist. Also, they might have become atheist or switched to Christianity while in Lovia. :Oh and "Muslim" is not an ethnicity - only Jews are an ethnicity. Muslims can belong to just about any ethnicity: you have white Muslims in Eastern Europe and parts of Turkey, Middle-Eastern Muslims, black African Muslims, North-African Muslims (somewhere inbetween black and Arab), Asian Muslims... and converted Muslims. It's not all that implausible, Pikapi. :Also, looking at fertility rates, both Protestants and Catholics tend to have (relatively) large families. Same can, traditionally, be said for Muslims and Orthodox Jews, which would mean these religious groups grow at a higher rate then, say, Buddhists. Though I'm not an expert on Buddhism and fertility rates. The glorious First Consul of Rome 07:46, June 10, 2012 (UTC) ::Pikapi, to be honest, I think these percentages are fully in agreement with the page Religion in Lovia. The only thing that's left to be improved is the languages section. The percentage of other languages is way too low. Especially considering Hinduism which is a non-inclusive religion (you can't get in that easily). Other seriously lacking languages are French, German, Romanian, Limburgish, and Oceana. Also, I think the percentage of Dutch is too way. With that percentage, it's not very likely that Dutch is not a recognized language. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:16, June 10, 2012 (UTC) While I sympathise with some of these arguments, I think the percentages Marcus has proposed are ok. Sylvania is recognised as one of the least religious areas of Lovia and while Lovia does have a lot of Buddhists most of them are Clymenis. @Oos: wouldn't much smaller language groups be likely to die out, compared to Dutch? --Semyon 14:03, June 10, 2012 (UTC) :Yes, eventually in most cases. But, Limburgish and Romanian are still very young groups (Limburgish people having only arrived a few years ago). For a capital area (imagine diplomats etc. living here as well), merely 300 people speaking another language than Swedish, English, Dutch or Italian? I'd make 3,000 of it at least... --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:44, June 11, 2012 (UTC) Oh, guys! I don't actually research my arguments! — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat • ) 01:42, June 15, 2012 (UTC) I know -__- Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:34, June 15, 2012 (UTC) To be honest, I don't really like America-style censuses. They say somebody is "Dutch", while he doesn't even speak the language and perhaps in only 25% of Dutch heritage :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:44, June 15, 2012 (UTC) Well, they do have a difficult task, because America contains immigrants from all over the world who have almost completely integrated. I remember Marcus once listing about five ethnic groups his ancestors belonged to. By contrast, I have one Scottish great-great-grandfather and a French Huguenot about ten generations back. I don't need to think much before ticking 'White English' on the census. :P --Semyon 14:06, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :Well, they should simply call those people "American", like in Oceana they are called "Lovian" (or if they want to, are called "Oceana" :P). Hahah, you should see my family tree: 56,25% pure Montfortian, 25% pure Etsbergian, 12,5% pure Koningsbosch, 6,25% pure Linner. All towns located within a 5 mile radius, that's why they call Central Limburg "incestland" :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:21, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::A sample of some of the birthplaces of my parents/grandparents/great-grandparents: Hull, Calne, Wark, Maidenhead, and London. :P --Semyon 14:33, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :::Hahaha, I don't think I can recognize your origins by your accent then :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:35, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :::::I'm half East-coast American, half Belgian but I have some distant Russian ancestry. HORTON11: • 14:40, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Am I the only one who's normal then? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:43, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :::::::I don't think you're that normal... :P --Semyon 14:46, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::Hahaha, should've expected such a reply :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:48, June 15, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::::In the age of globalization it's common to find people of mixed descent. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but my mom's banker was half Jordanian and Half Chinese. HORTON11: • 14:53, June 15, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::::Well, it's not that common in some regions. As there are only a few villages in the Netherlands that are still Catholic (as in: "church-going"), incest is on the increase again :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:04, June 15, 2012 (UTC) Population I think Sylvania is lacking a bit in population, with all its size and highest number of settlements. This is also dragging down the expected Lovian population of 220,000 to 176,000. Perhaps we should increase it maybe 1.5x its current population? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 00:12, August 14, 2012 (UTC) :We should do that intelligently. Namely: increase mainly NC and not TV. Also, the ethnic groups/native languages could use an update (in terms of Limburgish being seen as separate from Dutch/Belgian etc.) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 06:46, August 14, 2012 (UTC) ::Yes, though I also wanted to increase Charleston by a few hundred. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 13:30, August 14, 2012 (UTC) :::Woop.. Entirely forgot about Charleston :P Indeed, Charleston could also be lifted up a bit :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:40, August 15, 2012 (UTC) Anyone mind if I do this? My proposal: +20000 to Noble City, +3000 to Charleston, +1000 to Train Village, and +1000 to Clave Rock. That should get us above 200,000, but we'd still need some more people in other states to get it to our goal of 220,000. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:16, October 13, 2012 (UTC) : That's around what I was planning to do however I didn't really say anything as it seemed the Governors job to do so. I'd raise it up by what you say, they're good numbers and besides Noble city is supposed to be the biggest city by a long shot and yet it's currently barely above Hurbanova. Kunarian (talk) 15:27, October 13, 2012 (UTC) :: Hurbanova's supposed to be lower than Newhaven and yet it has 10,000 more than the larger city. Better raise up Newhaven too. ;) In fact, Oceana could have a couple thousand removed, unless they are all concentrated in Hurbanova, which I doubt. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 15:31, October 13, 2012 (UTC) ::: Yep agree there. And yeah maybe a few thousand but not too many and actually I do believe they are basically focused in Hurbanova funnily enough. I'd say we just advise the spreading of the Hurbanova population around. Kunarian (talk) 15:41, October 13, 2012 (UTC) :::: Oceana kept itself to the rules: multiply by ten. I'm not willing to recalculate all the damn statistics... Simply raise the population of Noble City with 30,000 and Newhaven with 25,000 should do the trick. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:23, October 13, 2012 (UTC) :::::Oos has a point and reminded me why we have the problem, it'd be unfair to do something to Oceana when it's followed the rules, I don't honestly know why Marcus decided to play with the statistics like this :P Kunarian (talk) 16:39, October 13, 2012 (UTC) ::::::I don't think we need to be legalistic about this - roughly 200,000 would be nice but some variation is ok. Still, I agree that Sylvania's population should be increased. --Semyon 22:53, October 13, 2012 (UTC) :::::::Oh, I didn't know that was the fact (about Hurbanova). I'll check what the other cities were before. But Oos, didn't Noble City contain over a quarter of inhabitants in Lovia? According to that, since we have devolved some fake population to lesser towns and rural areas, Hurbanova should still be towered a tad. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 23:37, October 13, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::- 6,000. It should have 60,000-70,000 (calculating minor growth) now. To be honest, I don't understand what you're trying to say and what your reasoning is... See: Oceana Demographic Center - Hurb has devolved some population. It should still be possible to do some minor adjustments internally (moving inhabitants from Hurb to some rural location), but it's not possible to change the over-all number of inhabitants; in Congress, we voted pro. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:24, October 14, 2012 (UTC) :::::::::I don't think we need to vote on making things better. My reasoning is that Hurbanova has more population than Newhaven (!) and nearly as much as Noble City (!). We really should devolve more population, especially from Hurb, and just straight up increase the population of Kings and Sylvania in total. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 12:52, October 14, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::::We don't understand each other. I'll write my idea in steps: ::::::::::#Oceana will keep the same amount of inhabitants. ::::::::::#Internally, people are moved from Hurbanova to the rural areas ::::::::::#NC is increased by f.e. 30,000 inhabitants ::::::::::#Newhaven is increased with 20,000 inhabitants ::::::::::And to get back on Hurb being larger than Newhaven: that was written in the time Hurb only had one neighborhood. Now, it has four neighborhoods. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:58, October 14, 2012 (UTC) Nevertheless, I think Newhaven still has more inhabitants than Hurbanova. Also, I think that the population of Noble City shouldn't be increased too much. It was quite strange to have over 25% of Lovians living in that one city before the census. But that's just a thought. If we want to keep the very high percentage of urban populations, so be it. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 02:28, October 20, 2012 (UTC) Problem The numbers can't just spike like this from 45000 to 100000 in like 5 five months. Honestly if you want to increase numbers make it maybe 5000-10000 at this point because it'll make no sense. And don't change the former numbers. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:54, October 19, 2012 (UTC) : We already agreed the May census numbers were terribly wrong, the above conversation proves that, I'll add in that the large differences are due to corrected errors. I'm not going to change the former numbers but this must be done. The final Sylvanian numbers will be in proper proportion with the originals (before the May 2012 census) and will be around 70,000. This way Noble City is large compared to Hurbanova again and so is Sylvania compared to all other states. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 23:00, October 19, 2012 (UTC) I like it! I hope you update the demographics as well (more "other" languages and stuff). --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:19, October 20, 2012 (UTC) : I am, a full and complete census shall be done! Also I've decided to do ethnicity by ancestry. I find that this is the best way of representing things and I'm sure will produce some interesting figures. It will also help explain some corrections I've done so that the amount of Europeans and Belgian/Dutch people seem more correct. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:13, October 20, 2012 (UTC) ::Okay, hope to see it soon! :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:22, October 20, 2012 (UTC) I still think that Noble City having a quarter of all Lovians is a bit strange. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 13:21, October 20, 2012 (UTC) :Too much? It can't be too little considering Amsterdam has only about 7% of all Dutchies :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:23, October 20, 2012 (UTC) :@ Time: Not really when you consider that Britain has an estimated 62,000,000 and Londons metropolitan area has 13,000,000 people, it's just under a quarter. And with Lovia's growth being reasonably related to immigration, most people went and still go to Noble city and settle there first, I think it's reasonable. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 13:29, October 20, 2012 (UTC) ::Well, that includes the metropolitan area. I guess it's reasonable considering the size of Lovia. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 13:51, October 20, 2012 (UTC) I shall also be correcting the irreligious problem we seem to have here. 60% is an insanely high amount of people to have no religion, even in Sylvania. There are quite a large amount of agnostic people who have a religion and simply quite a large amount of religious people. I'm going to change the irreligiousness to around 40% to better represent the mixed American, Dutch, Belgian and other European groups religiosity. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 20:41, October 21, 2012 (UTC) Does the irreligiousness include agnostics? I can't tell from your comment. —TimeMaster (talk • ) 21:07, October 21, 2012 (UTC) : It will include agnostic people who are not members of a religion. Just like Catholic will include both full Catholics and agnostics who state they are Catholic. Really agnostics are annoying when it comes to religious surveys because they can be Catholic but state that they don't know whether to believe in a God. Interesting how that works although saying that, they normally follow the teachings still albeit not quite as rigidly as full Catholics. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 21:16, October 21, 2012 (UTC) I'm not sure whether there should be that many Slovak speakers (even in Oceana there are less) and somehow I'm still missing the Limburgish language, Mäöres has quite had some relations with Lovia. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:47, October 22, 2012 (UTC) : Remember that this is only first languages and most probably have a second langauge of English or Dutch, and there are 2,611 Slovak speakers in Oceana and only 1,470 Slovak speakers in Sylvania and you only find really them on the borders with Oceana (just like the Oceana speakers), I think that's quite justified. And are you saying there isn't enough Limburgish culture in my polls? because if so what I reckoned was that the Limburgs were in Oceana. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 10:24, October 22, 2012 (UTC) ::@Slovak: well, most Slovak people came here over a century ago and they took over the Oceana language. I'd personally move 500 speakers from Slovak to Oceana, just to keep the image that most Slovaks moved from talking Slovak to talking Oceana :) ::@Limburgish: Well, in Wikination life we have a separate Limburgish country called Mäöres, where people only speak Limburgish :) Indeed, most live in Oceana, but the Mäöreser Embassy is located in Citizen Corner; scattered in NC there are Limburgish inhabitants, f.e. Mandarin Village and Long Road. Add the fact that most Limburgish immigrants have only come here recently, unlike the Italians and Dutchies, and you'll get to where I'm going :) Even if it's just about 400 to 500 people, it would make the statistics way more in-line with the in-wiki information. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:40, October 22, 2012 (UTC) :::@Slovak: Well I would have thought that the people of Slovak decent in Sylvania being cut off from Oceana in a way and wouldn't have Oceanised (not sure if that's the proper word) as fast, however I'll definitely add a trend into the mandatory June Census if you are okay with it staying like this for the moment. :) :::@Limburgish: Well I'll definitely make a Limburgish Culture in Sylvania page (I'm going to make pages for all the major languages and ethnic groups in Sylvania) however if there's 500 people they would still be in Other section because there would need to be at least 1,500 (to beat the Scandinavians) to get into the top 10 major ethnic groups by ancestry. But as I said I'll definitely make it so that they are mentioned, besides I'm going to do analysis along with statistics and I'll probably make mention there. :) Hoffmann KunarianTALK 14:43, October 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::@Slovak: Well, all of them actually settled in Oceana (apart from a very small insignificant minority maybe) :) But, if you really don't want to change it, I can live with it :P ::::@Limburgish: then I find your others group on the very small size considering Muslim and Chinese minorities tend to keep their language. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:49, October 22, 2012 (UTC) :::::@Slovak: I just thought that they would have been farmers and stuff too, plus considering that Oceana culture spreads slightly into the border of Sylvania (where the Slovaks and Slovak/Oceana speakers are according to the census), I would have thought that they would be there. Thanks anyways. :) :::::@Limburgish: What do you mean? Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:14, October 22, 2012 (UTC) @languages in general: I really hate to criticise, but I think slightly too few people have English as their native language. Even if we adopt the history idea I posted in the pub, which allows Lovia to be (relatively) multilingual, it's a bit strange that fewer Sylvanians are anglophones than Oceanans, considering Sylvania is the most American state. --Semyon 15:02, October 22, 2012 (UTC) :Ah yeah, but most Oceana actually do speak Oceana, though not to their own direct family :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:10, October 22, 2012 (UTC) ::@languages: In Sylvania there must have always been a great European population considering the Dutch/Belgian roots and so while it is the most american state, the first language learnt is normally the native language, most Sylvanians are bilingual having either English (for the non-english native speakers) or Dutch (for the english native speakers) as a second language. We just haven't had enough time in my opinion to be hugely anglophone especially in an immigrant nation. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:14, October 22, 2012 (UTC) :::Sylvania is very European and there is even a small Brunanter population in the state. HORTON11: • 15:21, October 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::100 years not enough time? Approx. 40% of the native population of my town moved to the US in the early 20th century, setting up their own villages (so no anglophones there). 0% of them speak Limburgish nowadays... --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:00, October 22, 2012 (UTC) :::::Ah but America had very pro-anglophone (or a better way to put it is anti-non anglophone) policies, especially in education along with this they were a federal nation mainly ruled from the centre from 1870s onwards unlike Lovia which has been highly confederate through its history, so Lovia wouldn't have followed that super anglophone path in my opinion. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:08, October 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Kunarian is spot on imo. If we were to make analogies with the US for our linguistic history 90% of Lovians would be monolingual anglophones, and Oceana probably wouldn't exist (at least in its current form) at all. That said, I think anglicization wouldn't have proceeded at such a slow rate as this page suggests. --Semyon 16:12, October 22, 2012 (UTC) :::::::Well, if the states had that much power in the beginning. Sylvania could've had a very pro-anglophone history and Oceana, which was 90% populated by Eastern Europeans, could not have had that :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:14, October 22, 2012 (UTC) ::::::::Sylvania was heavily European from the beginning (mainly Dutch, German and French speakers), the americans wouldn't have been able to force pro-anglophone on them without starting riots especially with a Benelux based monarcharchy. And about anglicising, I'll put in that 95% to 100% speak english as a first or second language, cementing the anglicising wave but also preserving the European culture present. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:18, October 22, 2012 (UTC)